General NHL news

[DanCan]

Is Bobby Clarke that Bobby Clarke? I didn't know that, but that certainly puts his comments into perspective.

Yes, I think we agree to disagree on the merits of the payback code, but perhaps we did clarify something. It seems that we do agree that the code is not working the way it should; i.e. we agree that the Bertuzzi incident was not a lone standing incident. I say the code has eroded, you say its has been bastardized. But I think we still disagree on what should be done. You say that the code can be fixed by removing the instigator rule. I say it cannot be fixed. Instead I suggested that the NHL's penalty system be reformed (see marrella's post), the red line off side rule be removed (to create more space) and the players protection gear be modified.

So though we still agree to disagree, we may have gained something by reopening the discussion:



As for whether hockey is a violent sport, I think it's a question of how to define 'violence'. According to my dictionary, "Oxford Advanced Learner", the definition is:

"using, showing, or caused by strong (esp unlawful) physical force, eg being murdered".


If there comes a complete meltdown of the code, then the NHL may fit this description, but I don't believe we have reached this point yet. At the very least, we still have to wait for the infamous body bag, aforementioned. (just teasing you ).

[bling]

"It is tragic what happened to Moore and because of the fight he had earlier in the game, Bertuzzi should never have done what he did."

That is the point that I was trying to make, Sammy.
I believe that Bertuzzi's hit on Moore was mostly about the score of the game and the frustration that he felt about that, because it was Steve Moore he went after, I am sure he felt somewhat more justified in doling out a less than sportsmanlike punishment.

Not to say that he had any intention of causing such a severe injury but he was quoted as saying, "Steve Moore will not be in the Avs lineup come March." He was only a few days off.....

[marrella]

Well, the Canes are lodging complaints against the Thrashers over a recent game. Laviolette called for an illegal stick check against Kovalchuk in our last game and guess what ... it WAS an illegal stick. Kovalchuk got 5 minutes.

After Kovalchuk came out of the box, he elbows Hedican in the head and Hedican leaves the game with a possible concussion. Then Exelby stabs Cole in the thigh and the chest with his stick ... but only gets a verbal warning, no penalty.

Not good ... particularly after the Bertuzzi incident. You would think players would be very careful.

BTW, Lavs attempt to get a 5 on 3 with that illegal stick check didn't work ... we got the 5 on 3 but couldn't score!

[sammy]

The joys of hockey heh peoples. How to fix the state hockey is in. Have the refs actually call penalties the way they should. Leave everything else the same, but hand out penalties for cheap shots, hooking, slashing, interference and everything else. Outcome, teams play with 3 or 4 players aside most of the time. Scoring is way up because of all the power plays. Attendance is up around the league because people do not have to see the violence that is now associated with the game. Goons are eliminated and pure skaters have full rein which would make the game faster. No trap.
A yes, but to dream.

[DanCan]

ESPN writes that Ken Dryden is preparing an in-depth analysis of the state of the game which he will present at "an appropriate time".

Dryden is, in case you don't know him, the vice chairman of Maple Leafs. He's also a lawyer, social commentator, a former famous goaltender (Montreal in the 1970s), prolific author, and much more. As ESPN notes: "With that kind of background, Dryden brings a perspective about both the business and the emotion of hockey that is too often lost both within the game and especially on the American public."

On ESPN's homepage, there is a long article, which present Dryden's views. I have provided a link to the article at the bottom of this post. What is interesting is that Dryden points to many of the things that we have discussed in this thread. It seems that we have had a thorough discussion of the issue.

On the Bertuzzi/Moore incident Dryden says:
"I guess what was most lasting to me is the image of the moment. Really, it's almost like someone being hunted down, and I thought how uncomfortable an image that was. You could see Steve Moore, who wasn't expecting anything to happen and who had no reason to expect anything to happen, and you could see Todd Bertuzzi coming in from behind. & It was a little like a National Geographic Special, like watching the lion and the antelope and how unfair it was & the position that Steve Moore was in and that he had absolutely no idea what was going to happen next."

On the bastardization/erosion of the code:
Dryden has some experience in these matters. He once headed a panel and authored a report regarding a similar incident where players attacked an on-ice official in a minor-level hockey game.
In the report Dryden made mention of what he called a "stupid point" and how four people in that incident reached one and the result was hideous violence that few people saw coming.
"I think we've all got one (a stupid point)," he said, "and we all reach it lots of times, and I think part of the question is, 'What things end up generating a stupid point a little bit sooner?' I think part of it is that kind of mentality, the understanding that we have of getting even. We all feel it at times and we all want to do it, but the question is how do we do it?
"Most of the time, we do it in pretty constructive ways. The way we always hear about it as kids and we did it as kids is we get even on the scoreboard. We did it in that way, but we've changed what 'get even' means now and it often isn't even getting even yourself. We've got people who are pretty much expert at getting even and we've got them on each team. And when something happens, then it becomes their job to go out and 'get even' and even when it's kind of manufactured, a little bit unreal. It used to be when something was a good hit, a clean hit or an accidental hit that it was, well, mostly good for you. Yeah, you would find a way of getting even in a certain sort of way, but there was a little bit of respect for the fact that in fact you got the upper hand at that particular moment. Now whether it's accidental or something happened in the past or whatever it is, there is a need to get even.
Dryden argues that there is a sense of frontier justice in today's world, and that it's a part of what we see happening in sport and that it disturbs us."

Then Dryden goes on to argue that hockey has become a more dangerous (maybe we should have used this expression instead of 'violent game -- then I'm sure we would have agreed), and not because of fightings:

"There were parts of the '70s (when Dryden played) that were awful where in fact fighting became an instrument of intimidation, an instrument of winning, but I think in general it's a more dangerous game now and not because of the fighting."

"I don't happen to like fighting. I think it's stupid, but I don't think it's particularly dangerous, but there are a lot of things that do happen on the ice that are dangerous. A lot of things have happened in 10 years, 20 years or 40 and 50 years and you say, 'don't change the game,' that this is a part of the tradition of the game, but one of the things is the size of the players".

"In 1952, the average NHL player was 5-10 3/4 and 175 pounds, Today that same player is 6-1, 204, not that much taller but 29 pounds heavier and not just 29 pounds heavier, but the players in 1952 were on the ice for two minutes at a time or more, and they were playing at a coasting pace. Today they are out there for 40 seconds, and they are playing at a sprinting pace. One thing I remember about high school physics is that F (force) is equal to MA (mass), and you've got the mass of 29 pounds more and you have the acceleration that is greater, and that force is going to be a whole lot greater in terms of those collisions. We've got a whole lot of more injuries than we used to have, more dangerous injuries, and it's not just bad luck, but we've seen it treated as if it's bad luck.

The article concludes:

"If you accept the premise that what happened in "the Bertuzzi incident" is not an isolated incident, Dryden has an irrefutable point -- there is a danger in the game, a potentially lethal danger.
There may be people who don't want to hear it. Worse, there may be people who don't want to deal with it, but if hockey is to ever better itself, ever to become the game that those of us who love it have always hoped and dreamed it should be, then voices like Dryden's must be heard.
The voice of change is out there. The question now is: Is anyone willing to listen?"

ESPN, 18 March, 'It seems that there is a need to get even'

[DanCan]

More from the same shelf[/b]

On Belak's two-handed slash on Vaananen: Toronto Sun, What a Disgrace

On The Moose's spearing of Strbak: TSN.ca, One Ugly Mess

NHL's disciplinarian, Colin Campell certainly is busy these days.

And if you think foul play is only confined to the NHL, think again! In tonight's Slovak Extra legaue semifinal between Slovan Bratislava and Zvolen, which was broadcasted live on television, Martin Mraz gave the main referee a double-handed slash!
As a Slovak hockey fan, who watched the incident, wrote in the IIHF Fan Corner: " I never saw something like this! It was on TV live. My mouth is still open!"

[DanCan]

Dryden speaks out
Dryden: NHL risks being extreme sport

Suspensions to Belak, Messier, Oliwa and Flames' GM Sutter
TSN, 22 March, NHL can't shake 'goons-on-ice' image

Avs wanted to leave game
ESPN, 22 March, Colorado forward says team was ready to call game

[DanCan]

If you dare to watch a video clip of the slash on the main referee in the Slovakian league. The clip is from Swedish television (so the comments are in Swedish), but the pictures speak for themselves.

NB: you need a real player to watch the clip

svt.se/content/1/c6/19/09/84/040323_slovakien_hi.ram

[DanCan]

The debate rages on...[/b]


When the NHL suspended Todd Bertuzzi for his goonish hit on Steve Moore, it was hoping to send a message that violence would not be accepted. But after three more ugly incidents on the ice this past weekend, Wes Goldstein from CBS Sportsline wonders -- are the players listening? CBS Sportsline.com, 23 March, ash of violence sending NHL down wrong road

Less than two weeks after Todd Bertuzzi broke Steve Moore's neck, acts of blatant disregard continue. Are lengthy suspensions enough ? Three incidents during the weekend make ESPN's Eric Adelson wonder

ESPN, 23 March, Some NHLers lag on the learning curve

 

[Daffy]

Maybe if they banned a player for life it might get their attention.......Maybe a bit harsh but it would probably work!!?....well possibly

[Daffy]

As long as the officials police the games correctly and clamp down on illegal hits etc and if necessary dish out tough punishments on those who commit them then things may get better, but they have got to draw the line somewhere now after these incidents to decide what s going to be tolerated and whats not. Ive got nothing against a good hit aslong as its legal and policed correctly. Ive been on the receiving end of a few! Some hurt some dont but ive also been on the receiving end of some nasty ones in the past and been sidelined because of them. Something must be done and fast before someone dies!

[bling]

Marty Turco from The Dallas Stars was suspended 4 games for slashing Ryan Smyth accross the face. He is a repeat offender as he did the same thing to Peter Forsberg last year and got a 2 game suspension.

[Jazz]

Weird that Mike Keenan gets fired by the Florida Panthers and is now rumoured to be its next GM a mere 4 months later, with an announcement coming on Wednesday.....

Also weird that the Panthers choose this time to make the announcements....maybe trying to steal some 'thunder' from Tampa (pardon the pun )