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Post by Jd on Jul 20, 2004 11:35:07 GMT -5
Do you think politics should stay out of sport, like suggested in the article? I think in this case you do have to take in account his position on seperatism. Especially remarks like I represent myself! I have failed to find out where he is the prototypical canadian our committee has made him out to be.www.torontosun.comFront page THE COC MADE A BIG MISTAKE PICKING AN ADMITTED SEPARATIST TO CARRY OUR FLAG AND JUDO HOPEFUL NICOLAS GILL COULD BE MADE TO PAY THE PRICE
By STEVE SIMMONS
AN ADMITTED separatist will carry the Canadian flag at the Summer Olympics in Athens. Nice.
Of course, nobody happened to mention that little fact at the two receptions held by the Canadian Olympic Committee yesterday. Either the politically correct COC wasn't aware of Nicolas Gill's past political affiliations -- which is quite possible -- or worse, it chose not to care.
Gill told The Toronto Sun's Steve Buffery in 1995 that he voted for Quebec sovereignty and feels "more like a Quebecer than I do a Canadian."
He said in the same interview it would be a "special feeling" to carry the (Fleur-de-lis) at a sporting event.
"I don't really compete for Canada," Gill said, "I compete for myself."
When asked about his comments in a telephone interview yesterday, Gill did not distance himself from his published views.
"I'm proud of being from Quebec," Gill said, trying to explain his position. "We are in Canada and I'm proud of that, too. You do what gives you the drive. It's really very personal. You have to do it for yourself.
"In Canada, we have different cultures and you should be proud of your culture. I'm very proud of my culture. But carrying the Maple Leaf will definitely be one of my greatest memories of my career."
Gill did not indicate he was misquoted in The Sun story of 1995 nor did he deny any of his past sentiments.
A five-person panel has elected Gill to lead the Canadian delegation into the Olympic Stadium, the worldwide stage for the opening ceremony in Athens, and can't you just hear the broadcasters.
Announcer: "And here comes Canada, led by Nicolas Gill."
Colour person: "Yes, Gill won Olympic medals in judo in 1992 in Barcelona and in the 2000 Games in Sydney, and in between he voted for the dismantling of his country."
Some advertisement.
Athletically, there is not much wrong with the choice of Gill to carry the flag. This is his fourth Olympic Games. He has twice won medals in judo. He has made something of a miraculous recovery from injury just to qualify for Athens. Ten times he has been a national champion. And yesterday, the COC referred to him the greatest judoka in Canadian history. Just who happens to be second greatest judoka in Canadian history is anyone's guess. But that's an argument best left for another day.
The case against Gill doesn't even have to begin with the fact he would rather represent one province than 10. But if you want to make the argument that the flag-bearer represents not only your country but your athletic ideals, that he represents your small window to the world, that whichever face you choose should be the face of your country, then the wrong choice has been made here.
"He's an outstanding ambassador," said Dave Bedford, Canada's chef de mission in Athens. "He's proud to carry the Canadian flag. I don't have a concern in the slightest about him.
"I don't believe politics has any place in sports. His personal convictions are up to him. They're not my business or your business."
While Bedford represents just one vote, it is his belief that the flag-bearer is chosen for "career achievement." The flag-bearer chosen to close the Games is selected for "accomplishment during those Games."
The choice could have been or should have been a returning gold medallist -- such as wrestler Daniel Igali, who adorned himself in the Canadian flag with tears in his eyes after winning in Sydney. And since then has repeated over and over his love and admiration for his adopted nation. That would have been too easy, impossible to argue against.
Instead, it was Nicolas Gill, and let the debate begin.
"For me, pressure is not a problem," Gill said. "I need pressure. I need stress. I need that."
And he's about to get all that -- and more.
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Post by MarmotMike on Jul 20, 2004 13:20:38 GMT -5
Hmmm... I need some time to think about this. However, I find what Gill said (see quote) irritating given that he gets some funding from the federal government.
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Post by Jazz on Jul 20, 2004 14:07:34 GMT -5
Hmmm... I need some time to think about this. However, I find what Gill said (see quote) irritating given that he gets some funding from the federal government. Agreed - anyone who has this sort of attidute should not be accepting funding from the Canadian federation and should finance themselves..... That quote was from a few years ago - so hopefully he will have come to a better understanding now - heck maybe carrying the flag might make him vote the other way (not to separate) next time....  |
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roots
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Post by roots on Jul 20, 2004 14:43:50 GMT -5
while i found the quote about his competing for himself a little disquieting i also noted this one.
"In Canada, we have different cultures and you should be proud of your culture. I'm very proud of my culture. But carrying the Maple Leaf will definitely be one of my greatest memories of my career."
I think he summed it up nicely..I also like that he doesn't try and gloss over past decisions and comments. at least he's honest.
'Gill did not indicate he was misquoted in The Sun story of 1995 nor did he deny any of his past sentiments.'
"Gill told The Toronto Sun's Steve Buffery in 1995 that he voted for Quebec sovereignty and feels "more like a Quebecer than I do a Canadian."
Now heres a question for my fellow Canadians, and be honest folks with yourself folks. who has not felt, at least once a greater affinity with your province and the people in it,than with the rest of the Country. have you never felt that the rest of Canada just doesn't 'get' your province,its aims or desires..have you never felt isolated or marginalized? I'm not trying to simplify the arguements of seperatism, just not getting my maple leaf in a twist..we all know decisions like this are entirely political and that there are more deserving athletes than Mr. Gill. Someone thought it would be a mollifying jesture towards Quebec. And so it is.
Being 100% Canadian heres hoping i haven't offended any of you. Here's the nice thing about this country ..we all get to have an opinion. Thanks for the article JD you gave me something to ponder.
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Post by sammy on Jul 20, 2004 20:45:28 GMT -5
Well, I guess I'd have to generalize this even more and call myself a Western Canadian first, an Albertan second, and a Canadian third. I have believed for about the last 20 years or so, that Western Canada has more in common with the Western US then we have with Eastern Canada. If anything, I generalize our position in Alberta as being very simular to that in Quebec. Just because we are English speaking instead of French speaking, the federal government think they can do what they want with Western Canada. The people of Quebec have gotten the things they wanted by holding Canada ransom with the "Give me what I want or I'll seperate" syndrom. Very smart way to go about it. Maybe its time for Western Canada. primarily Alberta, to start this out here.
An example of this is in the federal election that was held here in Canada recently. The Liberal party again came to power, albeit a minority government. The party to lead the country was once again elected in Ontario (Eastern Canada), and once again Western Canada really didn't have a say in the outcome because of the population out here. The Liberal party has so many scandals going on right now that it makes me sick. The only thing they did was run an effective slander campaign against the opposition and because of this they got into power again. I really can't believe the Eastern Canadians were so gullible as to believe the crap the Liberals put forth to win the election.
Personal thought is that maybe Western Canada should seperate. I really hate to say this, but I have very little respect for eastern Canada and their way of doing things.
As for Mr. Gills comments, good for him, at least he's an honest representative for the country.
Now that I've opened a can of worms with my comments and most likely have made all my eastern Canadian friends see red, I just have to say sorry, but those are the thoughts of myself and many Albertans at this time and for quite some time.
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Post by Jd on Jul 21, 2004 0:46:05 GMT -5
As much as I love living in Saskatoon, and love the Saskatchewan Roughriders (canadian football team). I am definitely more proud to be canadian than my province. I'm not proud of how conservative my province is, while it's mainly closed door.. i'm not proud of the racism that exists. I'm always glad when a respectable citizens from this province "makes it" in other provinces to show that despite being bound by stereotypes, there is a large group of us who don't fit the mold. While i'm ashamed that a lot of people in this country can't form a seperate opinion on this province without being influenced by one's ignorant remarks, you begin to wonder sometimes if those ignorant remarks have some truth.
Without question
1) Proud to be canadian
2) Proud of by city
3) Proud of my province
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Post by Jd on Jul 21, 2004 0:55:42 GMT -5
No offense, but western canada doesn't feel as isolated as Alberta. Since there is an economic boom in Alberta, a lot of albertans feel they deserve a stronger voice. While I respect your views, I believe there are a lot of whiners also who want Alberta to be on a pedestal and are more concerned about their own agenda, not western canada's. To my knowledge, the only one's who wanted to isolate themselves from Canada in BC, Manitoba and Saskatchewan were the farmers. I've accepted the fact that this province is to Canada what the Dakota's are to the US. We just don't have the population to sway an election, but the average citizen receives equal canadian rights. That's all I really care about!
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Post by Wide Asleep on Jul 21, 2004 1:37:17 GMT -5
Maybe my opinion is a bit slanted, but I am more proud of being a Canadian than part of any other political region be it province (SK) or city (Regina). I was born in Regina against my better judgement, and found it a great place to grow up but as soon as I could (after graduation from the U of R) I got myself outta there and now just visit. Now living in a foreign country is also a goodway of getting a different perspective on your home country, and there has been nothing I have encountered here that would make me less proud of being Canadian. Czechs and other Europeans tend to have respect for Canadians and Canada (as long as hockey is not the issue)  . Why do you think so many Canadians wear their flags on their backpacks? It is funny, when someone asks you where you are from, you tend to say the smallest political region people will understand, which for me is Canada. I usually get blank stares from people when I say Saskatchewan, let alone Regina. I sometimes envy people who can say San Fransisco or the Bronx or whatever....  As for Gill, his remarks from before would outrage me if he was marching right afterwards, but his recent remarks tend to offset that. People can change, and I am sure people do do it for themselves first and not for the idea of a country, province, city, street, house, bedroom or couch. When you work on yourself for at least 10 years every day, waking up before dawn, do you do it because you are pushing yourself on, or do you think everyday that perhaps someday you can represent your country and THAT will be the big payoff. No doubt representing a country is a great honour, but I would still place it more as a personal victory than a country's victory or, heaven forbid, a medal in a longer or shorter collection of medals for a country. |
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Post by Graham on Jul 21, 2004 4:32:35 GMT -5
Being a Scot living in England, I find this interesting... I've always regarded myself as British, Scottish sub-division. I am both, and both are of equal importance to me. I'm very proud of my Scottish heritage, wear a kilt at formal gatherings (even informal hockey gatherings!), refuse point blank to let my accent tone down and cheer Scotland on passionately at football and rugby union (no matter how much those particular teams test my allegiance  ). But, while I will not cheer on an English athlete competing for England, I will happily cheer for them when they put on a British jersey. And I feel exactly the same way whether they are Welsh or Northern Irish. Because I live in England, I will gladly support the opposition just to wind up the locals in a light-hearted manner, but it's nothing more than that. I certainly don't adopt the all too common attitude back home that the English are to be despised. Personally, I think the cultural differences within a country should be celebrated rather than removed. If you try and remove them, all you do is make people resent it and you suddenly have civil war. Make them celebrated, encourage everyone to join in (I've yet to meet an Englishman who didn't enjoy a ceilidh), and I think you end up with a more stable and understanding country. Graham. |
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roots
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Post by roots on Jul 21, 2004 4:56:30 GMT -5
i think that despite our wounded regional feelings Canadians want the same things.. ecomonic stability, employment, education and health care we can be proud of again, and social programs that do what they promise. personally waking up in this country everyday is like winning the lottery..im very glad the ancestors chose to go no furthur. I used to think i had little in common with the other citizens of this country until i met a few more from beyond my provincial borders..its surprising how alike we really are, how are desires mirror each other. the point in asking the original question was to get folks to see how we all at one time feel ignored and/or belittled by the rest of the country, maybe by realising that we'll know just how alike we really are. Sure we have our different agendas, heritages and traditions [and hang on to them tight folks]but name one thats worth breaking this country apart for. I am always Canadian first... even if I don't always cheer for the national team and im starting to sound like a beer commercial so im shutting up and going to bed now! |
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Post by NyQuil on Jul 22, 2004 11:20:18 GMT -5
I'm from Ontario, and we don't really have much affiliation for our province, which is gross in terms of size and population. (gross as in large ) I've always been a Canadian first and foremost, but that is typical for many Ontarians who do not perceive the peculiarities of our region in terms of dialect and culture. (What IS the Ontario culture, historically anyway?) In some ways, "English-Canadian" is a reflection of Ontario due to its massive proportion of the total english population. (Much like Quebec has the monopoly on French-Canadian, despite places like New Brunswick and St. Boniface in Manitoba) Within Ontario, there is the big mammoth, Toronto, and associated suburbs, and the rest, including Ottawa. Thus, I am a proud Ottawan, but I don't perceive myself as being part of some regional identity. Living in the capital, however, makes it easy to be "Canadian", as the federal government is here, with all of the bilingualism and such implied thereof. We in Ontario rarely feel marginalized, because of our massive population, huge industry, and political power. On the other hand, we are often critical of the cries of smaller provinces, like PEI, where their individual votes count for more because they have far fewer people per MP. It's not surprising that many calls for "proportional representation" come from Ontario, where Metro Toronto would probably make up around 1/6th of Canada's population. |
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Post by TampaLightning on Jul 27, 2004 8:36:54 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. I think Gill is struggling a bit with his emotions. He should never say he is competing for himself--I agree with criticizing that line. Anyone playing for their country should be proud to do so. But it is a good sign that he says he is proud to carry the maple leaf. So he is learning he is part of a great country, not just a province. And he seems to realize that the richness and strength of Canada's culture is its diversity. Why not be a proud Quebecois and Canadian at the same time? The more the better. I realizethe deep historical roots, but being in the situation can sometimes blind you too.
I have heard that there is often a closer affinity among people in western provinces for western US people than for eastern Canadians. I think it's a mix. There is an affiliation with the western continent, but also with being part of a Canadian nation. Again, part of both, and that makes for a greater strength.
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. Why do you think so many Canadians wear their flags on their backpacks?